Confounded
A high energy podcast with its own video channel featuring interviews with amazing people who have overcome adversity and life’s challenges to be successful in unique and wonderful ways.
Confounded
Retail Transformations and Digital Banking Breakthroughs (and can we start a podcast?)
With Sarah Curran MBE helping me, I bring you the first Episode of Confounded TV, a lighthearted and energetic video podcast about life, lockdown, startups, business, and more.
This week, Dan Blatchford of SipChampagnes.com does a 60-second pitch for his new side hustle, and Will Bicknell of Felloh! tells all about starting a new (and amazing) social payments business using Open Banking to revolutionise online payments.
Listen and subscribe on Spotify or watch the chaos on YouTube
Confounded TV is the people podcast with amazingly successful and interesting guests and a high-octane energy blast to start the week
Cheers to the entrepreneurial go-getters!
Dan Blatchford steps into 'The Elevator Pitch' spotlight to showcase his online venture, SipChampagne.com. With a clink of glasses and a pop of sustainably sourced bubbles from less well-known French vineyards, SipChampagne.com is revolutionizing the UK market.
We also raise a toast to Will Bicknell, diving into his inspiring narrative of birthing a business while on furlough – a testament to his undying ingenuity.
These stories aren't just about new ventures; they're a tribute to the spirit of supporting the underdog businesses and the emerging industries carving niches in a rapidly evolving marketplace.
Hello and welcome to Confounded TV. My name is Alyssa Campbell.
Sarah Curran:I'm Sarah Carrand.
Alastair Campbell:It's the first of June 2020 and welcome to episode one. So, hey, sarah, what's happening?
Sarah Curran:Well, still in lockdown.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, still in lockdown. That's very sad.
Sarah Curran:I know what have you bought recently online.
Alastair Campbell:That can't answer that. One of the more recent, if you really wanted. Actually, what have I bought online recently? I bought a GoPro battery. I bought a mountain bike and pedals and a helmet and stuff to go cycling along with almost everyone else.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, exactly, and you like pro.
Alastair Campbell:No, yeah, well, one pair of shorts, yeah. Yeah, I'm not a big Lycra fan. I think you watch this more often than that. Actually, I got the bike four weeks ago and they're over there and they're still hot.
Sarah Curran:They're almost like cycling out themselves.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, I think so. But I wouldn't mind being at Rutland cycling or Evans or something, because they must do spectacularly well.
Sarah Curran:Oh yeah, I've got a real problem with men in Lycra on bikes. Why do you have to cycle in a tri? It's like you know it's all tri.
Alastair Campbell:Was that Alex Dunstan or John Smith Cults? He only invested in people who created Cults. I think it was him, wasn't it?
Sarah Curran:Yeah, I can't say that.
Alastair Campbell:This is gay, so they're only like one minute 47 in. So I think we should really just give everyone a little bit of background about us, because this is all about trying to make it less nerdy and more about how the passion that some of the founders feel. You'll hear that in the interview, I guess later, with a guy called Will Bitmois. He's a really interesting guy. He's trying to change the world, isn't he?
Sarah Curran:I think he's got a really interesting business and I do think that the great thing with this I mean the great thing- it's all the horror aside, yeah. Yeah, it's that it's forcing us to re-evaluate where we live and what we do and that work-life balance. But also it kind of brings out creative mindset, and I think Will's a perfect example of that. I think his story is incredible.
Alastair Campbell:Tim, then it's interesting because a lot of the Silicon Valley guys talk about UBI Universal Basic Income and of course it is in effect being tested and I know Spain has just put in that they actually are going to bring in a UBI of about 500 euros rising if you have dependence and there's more than one in the house or whatever, and you wouldn't have Will's business if you didn't have the furlough scheme. The government's done right, so would you have more of that if you do UBI? That's the really interesting thing.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, absolutely, because maybe then people, rather than working because they have to work in a job they can't stand, maybe it allows them the mental freedoms to think differently.
Alastair Campbell:And then with that country who does it first get that huge advantage. You can see why the Silicon Valley guys do it, but they do live, with all due respect, it's a different world to perhaps some of us.
Sarah Curran:Yeah it's a very scanty thing.
Alastair Campbell:I imagine it'd be very kind of it's very big and you know it'd be very Danish or Swedish, or you know the real sort of thing, and some of the biggest startups from Europe came from a spot of fire Sky, I think Sky was, I think it was. Oh, but I find out my facts. Are you blacking that? No, I'm totally blacking you. That's the whole point of this, and I think, if we can bring across some of that and get these guys on as well, we've got some great names to which you can't see yet too, we haven't confirmed. We do have some potentially really exciting builds tomorrow. And then and I've got to the moment you put him it's worth telling me your background, because I think right now, retail is in a complete state of flux and you understand that space very well.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, I, I've been in retail now for um sort of nearly about 18 years and I uh I'm a big I do like times where you have to uh re strategize, re prioritize. It forces you as a business to look at actually to get away from that. This is how we've always done it and I think the ones that retail is that will survive this period, of the ones who adapted quickly, um, and what we're seeing is there's a real search in those customers who are going to the single brand um platforms so, for instance, there was French connection or um mango or Zara so they're not going so much to the multi-brand retail.
Alastair Campbell:Okay, they didn't have to anymore.
Sarah Curran:Well, and also people are browsing.
Alastair Campbell:No.
Sarah Curran:You know what they want you like, okay. So, sunny, you know it's sunny um, this week I want a skirt. Um, can't afford to maybe have the wrong size. Is what I'm going to do with the idea I can't return it? It's well I can, but it's the headache. So actually I'm going to go to the brand that I know my size in, and so what will happen? And what is happening is customers and average order basket. Average order value is lower, but actually he, she, they are shopping more frequently.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, more loyal, right. It's why, by the same Levi's and the same Congress that's a plug Free ones always welcome. Um, and I buy the same ones, and occasionally I step out my comfort zone and I'm forced to go shopping. Um, but I guess for people who do normally do browsing, and especially the department stores with multiple brands within them, you're not going to be walking past one and go I've a look at that barbeque, cause you're not going to bother, cause you're not there. And if you've not looked, and if you don't get that way you're not how are you going to find out about them? Yeah, it's a real.
Sarah Curran:But in um with your background and you'll know what we're, what we're all shopping. So what have you seen Like the most random thing in your you really want to know.
Alastair Campbell:Actually, I did a thing called the top 10 weird stuff that people are buying right now for um, which ended up in the BBC. Um, and the weirdest one I thought actually wasn't the lingerie, the chandeliers and the weird shit people buy was actually mops, cause people were mopping their floor for the first time ever, right, um, and as vinegar, and I think people bought vinegar cause the bleach ran out. Um, cause vinegar is a sort of mild disinfectant.
Sarah Curran:Um, and I just just to what is next, cause there's many forms of vinegar. There's, like the vinegar that you, you know, you.
Alastair Campbell:With chips.
Sarah Curran:And there's the you know. Then there's the red wine vinegar that I like to use all my dressing, and you know. Then there's the vinegar that you can use, sort of, you know, to clean your surfaces.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, and I must be that because of bleach run out and it was amazing to watch the changes Like literally country by country went through the same patterns they went through. I need to have gloves and sanitizer and all that great stuff.
Sarah Curran:I was a quick way.
Alastair Campbell:Well, they were all actually feeling quite fast. I think Leroy was a fad, so to speak, because I think the problem with Leroy is I think the media got a bit of a question to answer for this week Leroy is really supermarkets operating with, you know, super efficiency, the most efficient businesses they probably are in existence, and Leroy is hugely bulky, so we only have enough for the shelf for the day and if 20 people turn up and buy, you know three X of massive multi-pies, it's probably the shelf, luke's industry away. None of the media run a story Excuse me, there's no role. And then the show, then everyone goes. Oh my goodness, who are all the idiots are planted by the sudden of them pursuit market. I mean, it's hardly any. There's like statistically, there's nobody. And then that's what happens.
Alastair Campbell:And I think the stuff that was really interesting was they bought sanitizer and gloves and stuff. Then the master ran out and then they very quickly went into sort of home baking and all that kind of really fast. The Sarado was like quicker than everything else and then it went to gardening and then it went to laundry. It's really interesting. So there were 2.6 million surgeons, according to redbrainscom, of one of our sponsors and for laundry in February, which is normal for Valentine's Day, like the run up, and you get the baby boom December and, however, may is trending higher than February, right, so there is more laundry being brought now, and either there's lots of women at home going I'm going to buy myself something nice and look at myself in the mirror and pray during the garden or everyone's getting a bit friskie because they're still stuck here and what else are they going to do? I don't know. I would have thought by now.
Sarah Curran:And he'd be looking at that face the past 8 weeks. So husbandly says that it's not going to be any romantic moment, but I reckon there will be a baby.
Alastair Campbell:Oh yeah, absolutely. It's going to be a mess. We should get somebody on his built VB website and he's only planning all the marketing for next December. The worrying thing, I think, is that there's 8 million people, as of yesterday, on furlough and everyone's spending money and still buying stuff. So the question is what happens when furlough comes off? Because when companies start to get asked to pay 25%, do they start going oh, we can't afford it, or have things improved? I mean the guy at the head of city back tonight on Sunday, Sunday papers like he was, and said everyone's things be shaped straight down the street back up and he thinks not quite.
Sarah Curran:No, I can't see that happening, anyway, why?
Alastair Campbell:No, I sort of you hope for the best and plan for the worst. Right yeah, you need to see your long-term band and podcast and hope that you know this is the real place.
Sarah Curran:Somewhere you've never met.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just for people who obviously don't know us, which is almost everyone, or at least our mob podcast, hopefully we only met a few weeks ago. I can't remember how it ends, just.
Sarah Curran:Well, there's a restraining order that stops you coming. And real distance.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, that's it. So I think we should be talking together. The stocking confirmed with TV. Let's go into the first thing we've got. Every week we're going to run a little thing.
Alastair Campbell:We love this idea. I love it. The Royal Week we love this idea. People say we love this. A couple say that it drives me nuts. We love the X Factor it drives me insane. Anyway, this is the elevator pitch. So we all know that stocking channels have the elevator pitch.
Alastair Campbell:I've been getting told to get in refining for six seconds. So we're testing the TV by inviting people on cue music and they get 60 seconds. And actually on the test run we've had, it's hard to believe it's the US down Blacksford to talk about sipchampagnecom. Thanks for having me. So Sip Champagne. We represent the finest artisanal producers from the Champagne region Really found in the UK market. They're very small producers with a focus on sustainability and biodiversity. They often miss the products they've used and that's what we're all about. And the website is being built now. It's being built now. There is a sign of age, if you're interested Tools. When we open, it's sipchampagnecom. Perfect. I'm starting out. I think anybody who opens a Champagne website in the middle of a global pandemic has to be an eccentric genius or a stroller or crazy or something. So maybe we'll get you back on the couple ways to talk more about how it's going and maybe take some of these champions.
Sarah Curran:I just love to.
Alastair Campbell:Just to the point where you say, yes, you can have some of my Champagne, and screen for us. Perfect timing. That was Dan Blatch from sipchampagnecom. He's launching this in the middle of this pandemic. I absolutely love that. I like the fact that these are the big brand labels. It is different pre-juice by families. So in effect, he's supporting small, local businesses just in a dirty country. And he doesn't like the water champagne Not me anyway. So apologies for the sound quality on there and the video stuff there. We record all this in Zoom and I edit it in iMovie.
Sarah Curran:I think actually, this is the perfect time to launch a Champagne business online. Cool culture, of course, I know we talk about it again, nature of it, but I do think you know people like if you look at the online wine tasting groups, they've said it's really you know huge. There's going to be a lot of babies and there's going to be a lot of drunks out there.
Alastair Campbell:Well, there's a lot of champagne, a lot of lingerie. The chances are they'll end up being a lot of babies.
Alastair Campbell:One thing doesn't tend to be a deal. And then all the champagne lingerie gets put away and it's just dirty, that's a mess, and then it takes 10 years 10 years. On the side of that, warning to anyone who's drinking champagne at a very lingerie I think we should get him back on. I think it's really interesting because he's doing that with a friend and the friend's like super at the champagne, knows all the I was going to say growers, other vineyard owners in champagne. We even talked about doing a special episode where we're going there and actually make some of them. When we're allowed out, we'll take the confounded TV van and go and taste champagne for a week.
Sarah Curran:But also those regional and artisan Champagnes are probably. They're going to be much more affordable. Also, they're going to be nicer than the larger generic known household brands. So actually you can Brave, brave comment. Well, I don't drink anymore, so I made can of.
Alastair Campbell:You're okay. I think all the big brands are plain and some of them I might bring them on to talk about it. I remember I did a tour of Labrette of France and I knew nothing about wine and actually you could buy it. It was like, because the tax is different over there, it's just phenomenal the difference in price when you buy it literally from the door of the house of the guy making it and I'm saying guy because it was mostly men, it was all men, everything that it was. Really it was great, it tasted great and if you're not a connoisseur, connoisseur, you know it was great value as well. I'd be interested to see from how Dan gets on, because I think there's two audiences here was that I'll buy a bottle for a celebration, but if his pricing is right it might come down a bit to a Friday night bottle.
Sarah Curran:I love it. I think it's a great idea. I'm a real champion. So businesses that launch in obscure times.
Alastair Campbell:Shall we go to our main interview? Please do so. This is Will Bicknell. Will Bicknell has created a business and we both think this is outstanding, don't we? Let's just go to the interview and let Will tell us about his business. So welcome to Will Bicknell, the founder of Fellow. He is going to tell us all about his new venture, built completely through the Farlow period. Hi Will, hello, how are you doing, hi Will? Hi, lovely to meet you.
Sarah Curran:He met you.
Alastair Campbell:Very nice to meet you too.
Sarah Curran:So Will talk to me about when you launched the concept your marketplace. I know I'm completely blind at this stage, but I'm fascinated.
Alastair Campbell:Cool. So I'm on Furlow from a big tech where I'm a chief innovation officer. So I was put on Furlow on the Sunday and on the Monday I went to my natural kind of the innovation space and thought about what can I go and do to fill in my time and hopefully do something worthwhile. So it's been about two months now. I've kind of lost track of time being stuck in my little box in Lincolnshire. But so about two months I've been working on Fellow, which is FE00H, which you're trying to look for us, but so I'll tell you what it is kind of what that.
Alastair Campbell:So I was wondering, I was thinking about why is it so expensive to process payments online? I had multiple startups and it's always really annoyed me that you pay kind of one or two percent to the credit-bent companies, one or two second turnover, the last amount of money. And then, particularly, I sort of saw how much the charities were paying to process payments for a process donation, so like this is a one or two percent, was going to eat enough by the payments companies, the credit card rails, and I thought we could do better than that. And I knew from my think-tank experience, open banking, which is this new thing, which I'm happy to explain, but it's a way of taking payments without needing to use the credit card rails, which is massively cheaper. We could build this thing and it can actually help the charities to collect far more donations and pay far less in payment processing fees.
Sarah Curran:So and I think I completely get there for where the product sits and also the relevance of the product given, particularly the third captain, or is it third colonel?
Alastair Campbell:Tom, captain, tom, yeah, so okay, dr News 9.
Sarah Curran:And the just giving platform that then took their sort of 2% of substantial amount of millions raised. So why is that? Why is that just an outdated model that's just no longer relevant, given today's open banking and all these sorts of way, more sort of, I guess, consumer focused.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, well, it's just giving them credit. They've been around for a long time. They've been doing a really good service for charities and, naively, it really easy to collect donations online. But, as you say, it's kind of built on old school technology now, and the old school in terms of credit cards were the best way to take payments online. But the last open banking hasn't been around so very long. Really, your last three, six months has it become a viable alternative to do things. So now we can use that to vastly reduce the costs of taking payments online. So it's kind of a time and a place thing. The technology is there and it's trying out for some really good use cases like this to sort of demonstrate why it's good and get it out there to the message.
Sarah Curran:I love the fact that you were on furlough and it was covered like a hot minute, that you kind of gave yourself a weekend and then you were sort of straight back into okay, where can I focus my problem solving issues or skills, rather. So what have you launched?
Alastair Campbell:So we launched. We're sort of in beta I think is probably how we describe it so we can take all this technology is built. We can take and process the payments. We're just probably in the next week or so will be live on the party websites. So it's been getting technology up and running. We did really quickly. It took a couple of weeks. It's sort of a bit of all the legal number jumbo you need around it. We're processing people's money so we've got to make sure we do it securely.
Sarah Curran:I imagine that is where the red tape comes in, from that perspective. So, in terms of your previous role, what are you going to do?
Alastair Campbell:What if, when I go back, yeah. Well, I think we're going to cross that bridge when I come to, I suppose. Oh hello, I broke. Oh, you're watching. You're absolutely fine. Nobody's watching, I can guarantee you that.
Sarah Curran:You have to watch.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, that's true. So you know what it was going to. I think I'm in the state of I don't know exactly what's going to happen in the future. I'm just going to have to make it happen. So we've got this opportunity to grow a business. It then gives me the choice of what it is, rather than just relying on somebody else to dictate what happens.
Sarah Curran:So you're going to need to go for any funding.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, we've gone for a little bit of friends and family funding. But the beauty of the furlough scheme is we are earning a salary as such from the existing employer, but we're not allowed to do any work for them. So we need to raise less money than we might normally. So we've got a little bit of runway to prove it out, get enough customers on board, and then we can go for some bigger funds, or actually might be able to do bootstraps from there.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, absolutely so. Are you going to focus on any particular part of charities? Because I imagine it's almost like a spray and spray. It's so vast, and you kind of identified what your go-to-market sort of DTC strategy is for kind of consumer engagement and therefore then the brands coming up that you're going to be working with.
Alastair Campbell:Well, it's a bit organic at the moment. So who have we already got connections with? Because we need a few brave souls who are going to go. Yeah, I can see what your vision is. We're going to integrate with you and get the papers up and running. So that comes from people who know me and know some of the other members of the team. So I'm not quite ready yet to release all the names, but I've got some pretty good contact with some enormous charities at quite a high level that are quite exciting if we can get them off the ground and they're real household names. So people see, these guys are using this payment system and this payment system is doing. We're a social enterprise, so we generate the majority of our profits we give away back into charities and other social enterprises and if they can help us get that message across, then hopefully it's a bit snowball effect. So we'll be like oh great, this is the better way to pay.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, we are kind of disrupting that sector. That I imagine is fast. But actually it's been in the news how disruptive or how impacted rather the charity sector has been with all the events such as the London mass and being cancelled. But then I think also it's highlighted the commission that they take and I think to have a new sort of brand come in and disrupt that sort of traditional establishment. I mean it's in itself it's not a terribly sort of old market, existing market. But yeah, I mean things change so quickly these days.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah.
Sarah Curran:You know FinTech.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah. So I think we're trying to do a number of things. What one is? We're trying to just be because we're a social enterprise from the get-go. So what we're trying to do is build a socially responsible business, and what that's been brilliant for is attracting talent. So we've had people volunteer their time to help us build this thing For nothing in return other than the fact they want to see a business like this succeed. It's been great. But we're also for the chapter opening up new ways for them to get donations, because our vision is that people will pay by fellow anywhere on the internet or anywhere digitally.
Alastair Campbell:So if you go to TASOS, let's say, and you're buying a new swimming costume for your summer holiday, you can choose a visa or a Mastercard or Paytale, or you could choose fellow. The reason you choose fellows? Because we are saying we are donating the majority of our profits to social enterprises and charities. We also, for every time you use that button, we give 10B as part of that to these charities. So there's a real reason for the in the checkout space to choose us. But you don't really care whether it's visa or a Mastercard, it's just whatever happens to the Indian Cocket. So we're trying to change. Our consumers do things in checkouts to deliver good, so prove what we can do to better. Here's the question. Sorry, sir, here's a quick question. Do we have any idea of the number of transactions that take place across e-commerce? Do you focus?
Sarah Curran:on num.
Alastair Campbell:How many? Five, seven billion, I think. I've just made that up, but it's roughly. It sounds like a stream from the Department of Medium Statistics. I have got the number somewhere I need to go and delve into like a piece of it. It's massive. I mean, the number of online transactions is just yeah, it's huge. But actually what would building just sort of e-commerce? You can imagine your tax, your electricity bill if you want to make a payment on your electricity bill, you can use, rather than using the card rails, you could still use the open banking rails. Any payment you make, not just in e-commerce. We could help solve.
Alastair Campbell:It. Reduces fraud, I guess, as well. If you are a major mobile phone supplier, you have to have so many fraud checks in place. But it's actually really hard to have got somebody's banking app. If I go and buy a new iPhone for 900 quid and I use a card, they've got to make sure they address and there's a lot more risk of fraud. That's where you take that away, because it has to be my bank Exactly. Yeah, you've got the existing extremely high-quality bank fraud protection going on. We have to do secure authentication to the bank. So that's already regulated and tightly controlled. So there's very distant charts of fraud there. That's what processes is robust against fraud. The crazy thing about I've literally understood about credit colors. Why would I give you all of the information you need to go and make a payment anywhere, in any place, with our presence. You don't give us any information. All you do is try to find out. If you're a big bank fraud sparring. We're telling you what's the bank account of an assortment that you need to send money to.
Alastair Campbell:It's really hard to do fraud with it.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, absolutely. I love the story as well. I think this whole the lockdown has given people an opportunity to really review and be creative with what they want to do. The lockdown has been around so quickly, I think is commendable, but also it's within a sector that also is being really impacted through all the events being canceled. Yeah, I think it's just a perfect story.
Alastair Campbell:It's good. It's a really exciting thing to be involved in. To be honest with you, it's given me a real passion. The thing is we're kind of growing the idea. We initially were like, yeah, we can solve this for charity, but actually I'm now thinking this is the new way you pay. Right, it's going to be visa, paypal, and that's where we're going to get to. There's a thing called why do you choose paypal? Visa is kind of a fairly simple paypal, probably because of security for a lot of people. But actually it's simpler, more secure and we give money to social causes, to new fellows. It's kind of a note-raising to the user If you can use paypal or you can use visa.
Alastair Campbell:Obviously, one of the things there is you've got this. The nuts of something that you've got there is integration. Here's me with my huge retail store processing thousands of transactions an hour. Maybe I'm going to integrate with you. How easy is it to integrate and what are the risks that I take in doing that? So the mental scale of you as a business.
Alastair Campbell:So if you're absolutely ginormous, you might be integrating lots of different payment gateways. So ours is as simple as you'd integrate either the others. You just pick up the APIs. It's well documented and you can be up and running fairly quickly as long as you've got here in the house development team. If you're kind of smaller, you might be using you could be using somebody's aggregation a number of payment gateways for you. So there's a challenge for us is to have a relationship with those people who are already aggregating the payment gateways. So, as we tell them, super simple, you just carry on integrating with them and then they suddenly will pop up as a new payment option. You've got to tick the box to introduce. But we've got to do the legwork of getting a relationship with those intermediaries to integrate with the payment gateways.
Sarah Curran:It's really interesting what you're saying, because I've noticed Lauren Moore at checkout, all such as A-SARS, even Amazon, now Dominos don't ask me how I know about Dominos they prompt the customer to give a donation. So I imagine it's sort of from a consumer's mindset, it's just starting to become a norm.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah. So the difference is we're not asking the consumer to give any money, we're just passing on the savings that we make. A lot of it goes to retailer and some of it is going to go to charities. So the consumer's like it's not costing the consumer anymore. It's not actually costing the retailer anymore. We're just shifting around the costs from going into the pockets of Visa and Mastercard and those guys and saying, well, we can reduce the costs and give some of the savings away to charities.
Alastair Campbell:But yeah, I think a society in general is interested in giving something back and I think that's something that's come out of COVID particularly, and he talked to people in a much more generous spirit. I think from this and I think that's why it's a bit of a here and now kind of opportunity. So if we can be the established a, become the established way to pay, that actually is doing greater good by spreading these savings around with the who are so philanthropic and charities, that's something we'll resonate with the consumer and they'll go. I want to pay with fellow and then hopefully they go to the big meat doesn't go. Hey, why haven't you got fellows payment option? You should have it because it doesn't cost you anything and it is you. Just 10 B to my favorite charity every time I use it. Isn't the saving absolutely vast? It's not just that, because you're charging like a fixed price of few pence basically on your per transaction.
Alastair Campbell:Last time on an e-commerce store, I think I had to pay and I was doing okay, so my rates were quite low. They were 1.75% plus 20p for Visa, 17p for Mass, whatever it was, but that Euro-Signal percentage just goes away completely. So is that my rate? I'm paying a million quid out in percent as that 1% or 2% over a quarter or whatever. That just stays in my pocket. Well, yeah, depending on the size of your transaction value. So you're doing tons and tons of tiny transactions a percentage might actually be better for you. Okay, you've got to try and crack that nut. But if you're doing anything owed with 20 pounds I'm comparing this to strikes of this world that's a charge about 1.4% plus 20p. If you're doing anything over 20 pounds, r35p, which is a flat fee, suddenly becomes cheaper, and then if you're into the hundreds of pounds, it's miles cheaper. So we've been talking to one customer of the average transaction value is 140 pounds. They're paying us 35p versus about 1.70 pounds they're currently paying. Wow, that's exciting.
Sarah Curran:And then what's next then, on where you are? Where do you see this in the next iteration, the next version of your so?
Alastair Campbell:Well, we're still early days, so I've got to get a little cuss when something's running and get them really pleased with what they're getting. Basically, you just imagine payments. Payments are absolutely everywhere paying your parking, fine. Paying your gas bill, paying your it's just all. Every time, every customer, everybody you're talking to.
Alastair Campbell:I was at the bank of a mate of mine and he sells wedding speeches. Of course he's not selling very many at the moment, but I've forgotten. Of course people have to pay him to write these wedding speeches. He's going. He used to be paying your wine paint 3% these days.
Alastair Campbell:So then it's tiny little guys spending a lot of money on payments. And then you've got the multinationals. They're also spending lots of money on payments. So it's billions and billions of pounds that gets spent on these things. So use cases.
Alastair Campbell:But I'm an innovator so I've been thinking about things. So imagine you have your cake stand and you're trying to take payment, but you don't want cash because cash is covered in code. Cash is a nightmare because you've got somebody who's going to take you to the bank. The bank will charge you to deposit cash. So you can get a little QR code that you can put on each of your cakes. You don't need to install anything on your phone. Scan the QR code. It will pop up at the price. You hit send it will pop up on the other person's family.
Alastair Campbell:Those things are relatively trivial for us to build once we've got the fundamentals built and I think, really thick Ben, because I would go to the cake stall at the great cake show and I would just tap my contact list. What's the difference? Well, it could be the price will be the difference at the end of the day, and so the price in terms of the cost flow transaction. You've got the contact. You've got to have paid 200 quid a month to get your little contact as a reader or your pressing or whatever it is. So you've got to pay. You've got to shut up all of your money to even be able to take credit card payments or debit card payments. With ours, we can literally get you up and running in five minutes with your mobile phone for free.
Sarah Curran:For free, that's amazing.
Alastair Campbell:So basically the timing where people don't want to save. Wherever they can find some saving, you can reduce their costs, you can make it easier for the consumer and I guess for people with subscription services. It'd be so much better if I was subscribed to Hello Fresh or one of those that actually it was just connected like that and every month the money actually came from a bank account because it saves everyone. All the card feeds, it literally just cuts them straight out of the loop, so there's a sufficient. One is interesting because currently it's a little bit difficult for us to do that because you have to authenticate every single time you make payment. But in about six months time you'll be able to give us long standing authentication. So if you agree, like once every month, I want to do it that will persist. At the moment it doesn't. So that's, that will say in six months time that will be sold. But yeah, that use case is coming as well.
Alastair Campbell:But really exciting I was just going to write down on it.
Sarah Curran:I know.
Alastair Campbell:I'm just like, but you know the credit card companies aren't stupid, right? You know they've got a lot of smart people that everyone's looking open banking. They must be looking at going. People like you are exactly the threat that they must see coming up in the future. What, what is going through their minds in terms of, like, how do they mitigate either you impacting on their business or them changing their business to, to effectively stop you? Well, I didn't do, I didn't. Maybe I should honestly say wait, they're. You said there are a lot of them. I think there lies their problem. They have a massive cost base.
Alastair Campbell:They bought tribes and bought them to pivot and go hey, I'm going to embrace this really cheap technology where there's very slim margins in it compared to what we used to, and suddenly, like a road, our existing business, and that, you know, some of them might try it and do it. I mean, some of them have tried it, in fact, actually, and they haven't really worked because they tried to apply the same costing models as the existing, whereas and I'm totally aware that if they, if they suddenly sort of set up a team of guys and they could have a go at doing what we're doing, no problem at all, they've got those fields and where we love to do it, and I think you know, if we can have a strong enough brand that has the resonance with people and we can start to get some traction, then I think we've got a chance of competing against some. And also, you're lying, you're, you're, you're lying. One thing there If a big corporate takes a bunch of smart people and puts them in a room, what happens is a bunch of smart people sit in a room and say, if I say, if I take them out of the room and go, that didn't work and they put them back to the normal jobs. We all know that corporate innovation and I've done a few corporate innovation labs in my time Got great ideas because they pay people that has to go and events it. No, got great ideas because they pay people that has to go and event stuff.
Alastair Campbell:But delivering against lost in the complexity of the project and the team and the endless reams of paperwork that seem to go with corporates, I would be less concerned about them actually innovating and just stifling is more likely, and I see there's a couple of things in that. So it's the passion that you've got to want to do something. So we've got a group of people are not paying them any money. They're doing this because it's a pressure project, so they're really excited about making it happen.
Alastair Campbell:And to your point I've seen it before I've talked about you know you've had stars, like I've had startups and you kind of you come to the conclusion you could walk into the boardroom of a big company and tell them I did probably give them paper about how to do it. You guarantee you six months time is still where it's done, but yeah, we still got to. They can do it. So we've just got to just keep on moving quickly, keep on doing something and keep on considering, like what's important to the customer, the consumers. Why is the consumer going to choose us? I don't think a consumer is by any allegiance to visa. No, no, I'm the opposite. So there's an opportunity for us to give them something that they could have allegiance to.
Sarah Curran:And also it's the any disruptor in the sector is the tanker and speedboat. You know sort of analogy and you know, and these sort of established sort of the beast is the masterclass. They just can't move, they can't pivot quick enough and also they're you know they, they're a heavy, hefty cost base. So there's a reason why you know they have these, these high commissions as well, because of actually their business needs and it's crippling without. So from my perspective, it's a perfect situation where you've got an established market that's in a flux of disruption anyway, because everything's moving, more digital, and you know. And then you look at banking sector and the likes of Revolut and Homstow and the huge success and the bread and fresh air that these brands are to the consumer. Actually, I think people, consumers want an option.
Alastair Campbell:Question doesn't work with Monzo and Titan or the Challenger Bank. Well, probably the best way is if we try and show you right. So this is, this is what it looks like. I don't know if that's that blown out on the screen.
Sarah Curran:You probably.
Alastair Campbell:I'm just going to apologize now for those listening on the podcast. Yeah, is it? I don't know if you can actually see it. I'm going to, I'm going to do a donate now and what is going to load up the list of banks we work with. So who did you say Monzo? There you go, you know Monzo and then Revolut. I don't have a Revolut account, but I do have a Monzo account aspect and it's all worth all the Challenger Banks. So basically, you've got complete coverage. Fantastic, and yeah, so complete coverage in the UK, in Europe, is about 80% coverage and if it can spread out beyond that, the Wednesday we get you back on to so you can tell us what your first customer and. Uh, well, to know that maybe, maybe the end of this week, wow, Okay.
Alastair Campbell:You're all right. Like I said before, it's the lead. We're just giving the labels drawn up, so I've got somebody's just waiting to sign the lead. Wait, was it was the lawyer tree? Yes, no, really.
Sarah Curran:You are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are, you are.
Alastair Campbell:You are, you are Well done.
Alastair Campbell:Ian Marcos, who artisan knows people are an artisan, a lawyer, a intern. She caste native. Well, a minimum seafloor Intине had a primary care and the person that led her would care about it. Blimey you are, you are Not. I've thought so about Randall Scott. She'd come up in a couple more movies that happened, made photos, so she resays. Help us get there.
Alastair Campbell:There's no such thing as a game at the time, is it? I think I can feel the excitement in your voice. I mean, you and I have been in a series for a while through a number of startups. We competed for a brief moment before we realized that the market was too big, we weren't competing, and I think when you find something that you really love doing, I can feel it in you. I'm actually going. I mean, wow, I'm so excited, this is really brilliant, whereas, yeah, I'm going to do this startup and I'm just following a process. It's not interesting, but it's not life-shirming and all that great stuff.
Alastair Campbell:And that's going to be a message that we've got a guy on earlier in the elevator pitch and he's starting a champagne business. He loves champagne right, there's no worse way to start a champagne business than right now. But he loves champagne and he loves other little arts, those ones, the small and niche ones, and he's bringing them into one place, sort of marketplace of fine champagnes aren't going to break the back. But do you Do people drink champagne at home? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to be on the European Five stars Five 44. I've only got 16 minutes to go for it. I'm trying, but yeah, honestly, it's really. I'm super into the huge file. It feels a bit like the stars are aligning, it's the right time and I just happen to be gifted a bunch of people also on solo, somebody who's worked at Barthes. You know it's all about the Barthes' point of thing Serendipity round. That's what Sometimes. The stars align and serendipity is everything sometimes.
Sarah Curran:You see, you've got the guy from Barthes, I got Aleister, that's the thing, because you're just up the road from me as well. They're not you, William, because you're in Lincolnshire.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, yeah, you're in Lincolnshire too. You've got it.
Sarah Curran:I'm in Rutland.
Alastair Campbell:Hold on, hold on, hold on. You can't post the course, Will? I? Don't write it's not right there. Well, because she's making a curious mistake if she thinks going off to New Pavements and being nice and giving her the chat is the way forward. Confounded TV is going to be global. Yeah, faster, Right, so I hope it is. It's going to be able to find out what I'm up to. Yeah, but I think this is a big but also. In fact, you're in both of them, rather than I'm in Graffton, which has got not exactly on the world stage. Is it for banking or fintech? But you can do these things and people will be more happy that you're doing it in the new world.
Sarah Curran:Anyway, it's a great story. I love the timing of it. I love it's just, rather than resting on your laurels, and you've gone and done something and you've got a great team around you. That's brilliant.
Alastair Campbell:Okay, that's brilliant. So we need to find some customers. More customers, please. Well, the whole team. Don't call to us People call you. We can do that for our merch Excellent. Well, if there's a few merch, you'll do coasters and penmanship Like that.
Sarah Curran:And now I'm going to ask the Go to work on an egg.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, so that's what I'm. I don't know where you're sitting. It's one of the. It's one of the. It's the customer of the V&A that posts us. It's one of these campaigns in the 70s for the Egg Marketing Board they used to sort of it's two young, it's two young. Doesn't remember the 70s way back when?
Sarah Curran:Yeah, I remember the times I played them well like brand.
Alastair Campbell:I knew them well. As soon as I saw it, I thought actually the thing to do if you really want to resonate with old people is to make bikes right, make bicycles and call it egg bicycles. So then you can actually steal the idea and go to work on an egg and have a brand called Egg Bicycles and then aim it at everyone over 45, maybe even over 50. Yeah, yeah, we're getting close. Yeah, but you might be. I'm at least 18 months away, right?
Sarah Curran:I'm snapping at your hair behind you, don't worry about us.
Alastair Campbell:Hang on, I'm not a depressing note.
Sarah Curran:I know Where's that guy with the champagne. Yeah, yeah.
Alastair Campbell:It's. I was brilliant. Well, thank you very much. I'll see you soon. I will mention in the next episode of who the Customer is. I'll let you know as soon as I'm out. Really, thank you. Really appreciate it Really enjoyed that, really guys. Bye-bye Okay.
Sarah Curran:Yeah, so where was your friend or your contact? How did you meet him?
Alastair Campbell:He was. I didn't know who he was. I raised a couple hundred grand for Carsonet. I was sitting in Bingham, I was still running company check from Bingham, I was tapping a way to do Carsonet. So we said we should see this, it's near you, and he had a thing called Car Sift. He didn't know of me. I didn't know of him In terms of our kids playing hockey in the same hockey team. Yes, there you go, and then first we met on these weird meetings when you sit and go.
Sarah Curran:Eyeing each other up.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I'm not going to tell you. I was like you want to tell me why I'm having coffee and then and I actually just became. I had two funding. He didn't want to, but both of us were up against the might of the automotive business, which is just Hard, very hard, not just like so who's your first guest Next week?
Sarah Curran:it's from me to deliver a head.
Alastair Campbell:Hold on. Are you doing the end recording though?
Sarah Curran:Well, this is the we're recording.
Alastair Campbell:I'm just talking shit. Oh right, okay, sorry, okay, sorry, you do this work.
Sarah Curran:So we are each bringing a head to a recording each week. So Will was yours.
Alastair Campbell:Yeah.
Sarah Curran:And now it's for me to go through my little road adex of two other than my mum. Yeah, yeah, your mum can call Right yeah, and so I'm going to bring, I'm going to bring someone really exciting.
Alastair Campbell:Brilliant I went. When do we find out we should hey everyone, we're going to have somebody.
Sarah Curran:Really exciting, really exciting. I'll let you know Monday night.
Alastair Campbell:Okay, and we also have a really great guy who is very young, building a business which could have been catastrophised, if that's the word by Covid. He came to me for a bit of advice. I said wind it back a bit, but carry on, do it locally. And he is, and it's working, and he's going to do one minute pitch and I think we might have to extend the whole minute pitch to like three minutes just so we can ask them some questions. Right?
Sarah Curran:So I think it's tough to get it all into one minute for the elevator pitch.
Alastair Campbell:It is. We should do the pitch right as if the people listening were all investing, and then we should ask them some questions and actually have a mini interview, or maybe just two interviews.
Sarah Curran:You know, are we still going offscreen?
Alastair Campbell:Yeah, we're still recording. Yeah, Because if we have two interviews, we have to make up less stuff and it's probably more interesting.
Sarah Curran:Oh, are you saying I'm not interesting?
Alastair Campbell:No, no, they're me. You're very interesting. I'm just, you know, at that site I hold that. Yes On that note. On that note, let's wrap up episode one. Thank you all three of you for listening. We have incredibly great, both of you. Thanks mom, Thanks mom and my sister, and if you want to sponsor us, it's really cheap right now, but getting quick, Because within a year it's going to be expensive.
Sarah Curran:Not, you Give your own little shout-outs.
Alastair Campbell:We can even be a little sign up here, because obviously this is not just a podcast. You can also watch it on our YouTube channel, which we're still waiting for the custom handle for, but there'll be a link on the podcast description. So professional, so professional, so professional. Bye everyone.
Sarah Curran:Bye, bye everyone. Bye Alistair, bye Sarah, see you later.
Alastair Campbell:Bye, bye To the music To the music To the music.
